Creation vs. Evolution; what do you choose?

[Dodge Viper]

The Supreme consciousness creates, and the mind (individual consciousness) projects evolution.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Boleslaw

Yes that's basically the point. One's choice in the matter reveals what kind of person you really are.

And what does that reveal about people? I'm sorry for being skeptical, but there are lots of different types of people on both sides. I think that you're making sweeping generalizations about large amounts of people that are unwarranted.

If you choose one option, you freely submit to the impersonal laws of necessity - who don't give a damn about you one bit. But everything about the universe is knowable and understandable.

If you choose the other, then you place yourself before a personal God who does care about you; but is an endless mystery. And with this God, all is possible.

But isn't truth an important thing for Christians too? The Christian must believe that the truth of God must be true regardless of what anyone thinks, and this is something he shares with the rationalist. Likewise, the Christian aught not to believe that truth is relative--and this concerns matters of fact, as well as those of religion and morality.

And let's not forget that with this God, you are given free will over your fate. Wheras with Evolution, your fate is largely determined for you by your genes. With faith, one can more freely accept or reject God or anything for that matter. With logic(or rather logic alone), one's line of thinking is already determined for you.

Just because my choosing to not sit up is determined, it doesn't follow that I can't choose otherwise. I could sit up right now if I wanted to. Likewise, if someone has the ability and the desire, then he will be able to change his lifestyle--whether or not he's determined to do is beside the point. This is compatibalism.

A man of faith need not reject logic in toto, he just can't be restrained by it - he is what Chesterton called a "complete thinker".

It can be asked that if one accepts logic and reason, then what's to stop him from questioning religion, or anything for that matter? Again, how can you keep certain aspects of life restricted from it, and not others? Who's to choose which ones are off-limits and which ones aren't?

So the argument could be made that those who freely choose evolution over creation are intellectually lazy cowards.

Why? I can't help but take this statement as an ad hominim attack. Besides, from a strictly intellectual standpoint, rationalists are far greater because they exercise rationality to a far greater degree. We may say that they're missing something that is crucial for being human, but that isn't an intellectual defect. It's criticizing them for being too intellectual.

[Boleslaw]

Another fine example of Sean engaging in the fine art of missing the point.

Originally Posted by Sean

And what does that reveal about people? I'm sorry for being skeptical, but there are lots of different types of people on both sides. I think that you're making sweeping generalizations about large amounts of people that are unwarranted.

No shit sherlock that there's different types of people on both sides of the argument; I've stated this numerous times before in the Evolution vs. Creation debate.

The hyperbole argument here is designed so one has to choose between the two ultimate decisions: evolution or creation. It's a classic Kierkegaardian Either/Or dilemma.

The rest is just your standard nit-picking which only serves to show how much you failed to understand the main point behind this discussion.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Boleslaw

Another fine example of Sean engaging in the fine art of missing the point.

And another fine example of Boleslaw engaging in the fine art of refusing to defend and clarify his position when it's put up to logical scrutiny.

No shit sherlock that there's different types of people on both sides of the argument; I've stated this numerous times before in the Evolution vs. Creation debate.

The hyperbole argument here is designed so one has to choose between the two ultimate decisions: evolution or creation. It's a classic Kierkegaardian Either/Or dilemma.

I am asking you what it is that is revealed about people who make such a choice. Simply saying that one's choice to choose X reveals his tendency to choose X tells us nothing.

Again, you said:

"One's choice in the matter reveals what kind of person you really are."

What kind of people tend to choose evolution, and what kind of people tend to choose creation?

[Boleslaw]

Originally Posted by Sean

And another fine example of Boleslaw engaging in the fine art of refusing to defend and clarify his position when it's put up to logical scrutiny.

Considering that almost all the issues you seek to engage me on are those that occur beyond the realm of logic, it further proves that you obviously don't understand the point even being made here.

I am asking you what it is that is revealed about people who make such a choice. Simply saying that one's choice to choose X reveals his tendency to choose X tells us nothing.

I actually did explain to some extent what one's choice actually means and I even cited Shestov's explaination of what one choice means. Not suprisingly, you failed completely to even address any of this in your "responses".

You basically missed the entire point that was right in front of your face.

[Ahknaton]

Let's ask another question:

Suppose that God exists, but that for reasons that are unintelligible to our puny mortal minds, He brought the Universe into being specifically in order to create some other aspect of nature other than us: nebulas for example. Suppose the beauty of nebulas are the pinnacle of Creation, and humans evolved through purely naturalistic evolutionary processes as a side-effect of the material conditions required to create nebulas. Even so, God has decided in His infinite wisdom to take an interest in us, grant us life after death in Heaven (if we're good) and to decree a set of absolute morals.

In other words, you get all the practical benefits of a reality in which Creationism is true, except for the knowledge that you were created with a divine purpose in God's image. Would you still prefer that one rather than the other was true?

[Raskolnikov]

I don't see why these two viewpoints have to be contradictory. I believe a God like force/being who does not interfere in mortals lives or world created the universe and its laws, including evolution.

[Sargon]

What is older egg or a chicken, eternal mystery?
One of the questions that bother mankind since the day we start to use brain but still we are not able to give precise answer, nor we will do in the near future.
To me personally Darwin theory is acceptable but then again there are so much illogical arguments in his theory .

[klipgeit]

Originally Posted by dimitrije

What is older egg or a chicken, eternal mystery?
One of the questions that bother mankind since the day we start to use brain but still we are not able to give precise answer, nor we will do in the near future.
To me personally Darwin theory is acceptable but then again there are so much illogical arguments in his theory .

egg or chicken
http://people.cs.uu.nl/hansb/religion/chickenegg.html

To solve this, one may say:"Did Adam and Eve had a bellybutton.??????
Certainly not according to the creation story,but Abel and Cain had .

[klipgeit]

Originally Posted by Ahknaton

Let's ask another question:

Suppose that God exists, but that for reasons that are unintelligible to our puny mortal minds, He brought the Universe into being specifically in order to create some other aspect of nature other than us: nebulas for example. Suppose the beauty of nebulas are the pinnacle of Creation, and humans evolved through purely naturalistic evolutionary processes as a side-effect of the material conditions required to create nebulas. Even so, God has decided in His infinite wisdom to take an interest in us, grant us life after death in Heaven (if we're good) and to decree a set of absolute morals.

In other words, you get all the practical benefits of a reality in which Creationism is true, except for the knowledge that you were created with a divine purpose in God's image. Would you still prefer that one rather than the other was true?

This is heavy
Divine purpose????
Imagine you are one sperm in a sea of 2.000.000 chasing the one egg available.Either you are divinely directed as the only sperm to fertilize the egg or you happen to be the strongest swimmer.
I believe it is the latter.
I assume(not good) that a nebula has no thinking capacity,but humans have.
Would He give a bit of his brain to US.
Doubt it,He is to egoistical for that.(See the story of the tree and the fruit)

We ,human beings,are able to go back into the deep past to find the "big bang"
So far we have been unable to unravel what was before the big bang or what(who) initiated the big bang.
If you call that God,than I can not fault you.